Columbia Chamber: Smoking ban has little affect on business
COLUMBIA -- While Jefferson City leaders debate the smoking issue, it’s been more than three years since Columbia city leaders adopted a no smoking ordinance for bars, restaurants and businesses.
Columbia’s smoking ordinance bans smoking inside any public place.
Smokers are allowed to smoke outside of buildings.
Violators can be fined up to $200.
Columbia Chamber of Commerce President Don Laird said his city’s no smoking policy has had very little impact on the success and failure of businesses.
“I think when people go to another town, maybe Jefferson City, they realize that ordinance is not in place," Laird said. "Even people I know that are smokers, they’ve gotten used to it. I think they find mostly that it’s something that is here to stay. I think that they are very accommodating.”
Laird said any organized opposition to Columbia’s smoking ban has dissolved over the past three years.
Some bars going smoke-free on their own:
St. Louis County Residents Could Vote on Smoking Ban In November
But first the County Council must pass a proposal that would allow residents a voice in the matter.
The council could vote on the proposed referendum as early as tonight, allowing the issue to go before voters in November.
Council member Barbara Fraser tells the Post-Dispatch this morning: "I think a ban would be great for the county, and the timing is good. For some time now, I have been hearing from many municipalities, and particularly from my constituents, that they want the county to take the bull by the horns on this issue."
Yesterday Fraser had the county counselor draw up a proposed ordinance similar to the one Clayton officials passed last week that prohibits smoking in bars, restaurants and 80 percent of hotel rooms. Under the legislation, businesses may allow customers to smoke on outdoor patios.
The county is facing pressure from St. Louis City and suburbs such as Kirkwood and Wildwood, which are considering smoking bans but fear their business owners may lose customers if the entire region fails to go smoke free.
In 2006, the St. Louis County Council narrowly rejected (4-3) a bill that would have banned indoor smoking at bars and restaurants. St. Louis County Executive
Charlie Dooley helped defeat that bill and it looks like he will once more do what he can to defeat Fraser's proposal. yesterday Dooley's spokesman Mac Scott told the Post-Dispatch that Dooley only supports a smoking ban if it's a statewide prohibition.
Six hours of hearings at City Hall last week over a bill banning smoking in almost all public places were some of the most contentious and long-winded in years.
But in some ways, the debate came down to a brief exchange during the hearings by the Board of Aldermen's Health and Human Services Committee.
"You don't care that they go out of business?" said Alderman Stephen Conway, D-8th Ward, referring to bars he thought a ban might hurt.
"You don't care that they die?" said Bob Johnson of the antismoking group Smoke Free St. Louis.
So it went as dozens spoke for and against the bill sponsored by Central West End Alderwoman Lyda Krewson, D-28th Ward, in hearings June 30 and July 1.
The hearings continue at 1 p.m. July 9 in Room 208 of City Hall. If the committee approves it, the bill goes to the Board of Aldermen.
The measure would go into effect when the county passes a similar bill. That would prevent those who smoke from going to county establishments where smoking is allowed.
"If we pass this bill here, St. Louis County will come right behind us," Mayor Francis Slay told the health and human services committee last week.
Not so fast, said Mac Scott, a spokesman for St. Louis County Executive Charlie Dooley.
"The county executive believes that we need a statewide smoking ban," Scott said. Even if the city bill is passed, Dooley wouldn't consider a countywide ban.
Proponents of the smoking ban include a number of health groups and city residents. Opponents include business groups, restaurants and taverns that claim the bill could hurt their businesses by driving away customers who smoke.
The bill bans smoking in public areas, except outdoor employment areas, private clubs without workers, tobacco stores and 20 percent of hotel and motel rooms.
Originally, it prohibited casino smoking. But in a change bitterly fought by opponents, Krewson revised it to allow smoking on casino floors.
Slay told committee members the bill is meant to create a level playing field between casinos in the region. Casinos don't mind being smoke-free if other casinos in the region are smoke-free, he said.
Slay said it would be regressive not to follow the many cities and states that have approved similar laws.
"If we pass this bill here, St. Louis County will come right behind us," Slay said. "This environmentally friendly progressive measure will help the future of St. Louis."
Alderman Kenneth Ortmann, D-9th Ward, was among the opponents who spoke. His wife and daughter own the Cat's Meow, a bar at 2600 S. 11th St.
"Could this put us out of business? Yes, it could." said Ortmann, who estimated 75 percent of his customers smoke. "Most of the people we hire are customers first, and, yes, they know that it's a smoking establishment."
Bill Hannegan, of the group Keep St. Louis Free, said three economists contend the ban will harm St. Louis. He criticized the casino floor exception.
Sarah Shelton, a researcher for Washington University's Center for Tobacco Policy Research, asked for a bill with no exceptions. "The science about secondhand smoke is clear," she said.
Shannon Woodcock testified that in the past she worked for restaurants and bars where people smoked. Now pregnant, she said she's glad she doesn't have to do that any more. She said she would leave work with a bad feeling in her chest.
"I don't think it's right to assume that people have choices to work somewhere else," she said.
But Conway said, "There are jobs out there. It depends on what you want to do."
07.02.2009 11:12 am
A third hearing on city smoking ban bill will be held
UPDATED: St. Louis Alderman Greg Carter, chairman of the committee hearing testimony on a proposed smoking ban for most public places in the city, will hold a third hearing next week. It is set for 1 p.m. July 9 at City Hall.
Alderman Lyda Krewson, sponsor of the bill, had hoped Carter would call for a vote after yesterday’s hearing was over. If the committee supports it, the bill moves to the full Board of Aldermen for consideration. Those who testified for Krewson’s bill on Wednesday included Mayor Francis Slay, St. Louis Rams linebacker Chris Draft and state Reps. Jeanette Mott Oxford and Jamilah Nasheed, both St. Louis Democrats.
At this rate, there is no way the full Board of Aldermen would be able to pass (or kill) the bill before the legislators go on summer break July 10 (returning Sept. 18). While she is anxious for its passage, Krewson said she wants to make sure that everyone who wants to speak out for and against the ban gets a chance to do so.
The bill would ban smoking in restaurants and bars, although patios and other outside areas wouuld be exempt. The city’s two casinos would also be allowed to let customers continue smoking on the gaming floors, but the restaurant and bars in those facilities would be smoke-free.
The caveat of the bill is one of the most controversial aspects of the legislation: The smoking ban would not go into effect unless St. Louis County passes a similar bill, and there seems to be little interest in doing so considering failed efforts in the county in 2005 and 2006. St. Louis County Executive Charles Dooley favors a statewide ban. Many of the opponents and supporters who spoke Tuesday and Wednesday regarding the city smoking ban bill also favor a statewide ban to assure that a ban in one place doesn’t drive business to a nearby city or county.
Article printed from Political Fix: http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/political-fix
URL to article: http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/political-fix/political-fix/2009/07/a-third-hearing-on-city-smoking-ban-bill-will-be-held/
A controversial proposal to ban smoking in the city has attracted some unlikely combatants on both sides of the debate.
The American Cancer Society, an agency that preaches the dangers of smoking, opposes the bill, saying it is not strong enough. But among the bill's supporters are restaurateur Kim Tucci of the Pasta House Co. and entrepreneur Joe Edwards, who helped extend the Delmar Loop into St. Louis with the Pageant, Pin-Up Bowl and the Moonrise Hotel.
Edwards said he sees the smoke-filled days of clubs and bowling alleys giving way to younger crowds focused on health. Tucci said his restaurants went smoke-free about six years ago at the urging of customers, and it has not hurt his business.
The comments came Tuesday as city leaders considered a bill that would ban smoking in all restaurants and bars. A second day of hearings on the subject is scheduled for today at City Hall.
Patios or other outdoor areas would be exempt under the measure. And under an amendment added to the bill, the gaming floors of the city's two downtown casinos also would be excluded.
The biggest caveat in the bill: It would only go into effect if St. Louis County passes similar legislation.
There is no formal movement to do so in the county and St. Louis County Executive Charles A. Dooley said he supports a statewide ban rather than a countywide prohibition. Efforts to ban smoking in the county in 2005 and 2006 were unsuccessful.
The casino exemption and the dependence on county action were reasons the American Cancer Society gave for opposing the measure.
"Some people believe that we draw too hard of a line about what we can support in public smoking legislation, and that we aren't willing to compromise enough," said Christine Winter of the American Cancer Society. "As difficult as it can be to pass comprehensive smoke-free laws, we have observed it to be even more difficult to come back and close loopholes in weaker laws later."
During the three-hour hearing on Tuesday, advocates of the ban rattled off the health risks of secondhand smoke. The ban's opponents said customers are aware of the health risks but come to the restaurants and bars so that they can smoke.
Alderman Ken Ortmann, whose family runs the Cat's Meow bar in Soulard, said that at least 75 percent of his customers smoke.
"Could this put us out of business? Yes, it could," Ortmann said, testifying before his colleagues on the Health and Human Services Committee. He also opposes giving an exemption to casinos.
Alderman Joe Vollmer, who owns Milo's bar and grill and sits on the committee, said he would not support the bill without a statewide ban.
Alderman Lyda Krewson, the bill's sponsor, said that 37 states have some form of smoke-free law with 24 of them banning it outright in restaurants and bars. Forty of the country's 60 largest cities also have smoking bans, she said. Nine cities in Missouri have them, including Ballwin, Kansas City, Kirksville and Columbia.
A smoking ban is expected to be approved in Clayton this month and efforts are under way to get a smoking ban on the ballot in Kirkwood.
"There is ever-increasing momentum across the country," Krewson said, noting that countries around the world, including Greece, Australia, Cuba and France also have banned smoking.
St. Louis missed its chance to be progressive, said Krewson, who represents much of the Central West End. Now, "it's just something I think we need to get done."
Harry Belli, who owns Harry's Restaurant and Bar downtown, said he worries that his eatery will meet the same fate that his Harry's West did in Ballwin after a smoking ban went into effect there in 2006.
Belli says his restaurant lost $130,000 in a year and closed 15 months after the ban began. Like many of the opponents, he said a statewide ban was the only way to ensure a level playing field.
Jack Larrison, owner of Shady Jack's Saloon on North Broadway, said he does not care about who smokes or doesn't in France or any other country.
"I'm speaking for the survival of my business," he said.
He said that after an Illinois smoking ban went into effect in January 2008, he saw a bump in business the very next day. Banning smoking in the city during a soft economy would mean an uncertain future for Shady Jack's, he said.
Krewson acknowledged concerns about the bill not being restrictive enough and being too dependent on the county. But the city cannot wait around for a statewide ban, something many of those for and against the proposal have suggested, she said.
"There's no bill that is perfect," Krewson said. "In this case, the good could be the victim of the perfect. I hope you won't oppose it because it's not perfect or not exactly to your liking."
Those lobbying for the bill dashed around the room Tuesday, predicting it would pass out of committee with either a 6-3 or 5-4 vote. Jeff Rainford, Mayor Francis Slay's chief of staff, cornered committee Chairman Greg Carter after the hearing, trying to convince him the ban was the right thing to do. Carter told Rainford he remains on the fence, concerned about the public health issues but also worried about the economic impact it could have on some businesses.
Either way, there will be no action for at least two months. If Carter calls for a vote on the bill after the hearing today, and it passes, there will not be enough time to get final approval from the full Board of Aldermen before it adjourns for the summer on July 10.
Aldermen start work on smoking ban
Rachel Lippmann, KWMU(2009-06-30)
<!-- PHOTO -->
9th Ward. Ald. Ken Ortmann addresses the Health and Human Services Committee. Ortmann's family owns a bar in Soulard(KWMU photo/Rachel Lippmann)
<!-- END PHOTO --> ST. LOUIS, MO(KWMU) - A standing-room-only crowd filled a hearing room at St. Louis City Hall Tuesday to weigh in on a proposed smoking ban in St. Louis.
The current proposal from 28th ward Alderwoman Lyda Krewson, which is expected to be amended, bans smoking everywhere except outdoor patios, tobacco shops, and casino floors. It has the strong support of Mayor Francis Slay, whom Krewson echoed in pushing for the ban.
"Several years ago, I think it would have been a progressive bill," she said. "Today, just sort of something we need to get done."
Smoking is banned in the restaurants owned by the Pasta House Company, said company president Kim Tucci, and he's never seen business go down.
"We're putting people on the moon and people are still smoking," Tucci said in disbelief, though he acknowledged that most customers at his restaurants are coming to eat, not just to drink.
The city's ban does not take effect until similar legislation is enacted in the county, and it does not have the support of the American Lung Association and American Cancer Society, which want a total ban.
The exemption for casinos also infuriated 9th Ward Alderman Ken Ortmann, whose wife and daughter own the The Cat's Meow in Soulard.
"We've had our business for 14 years, we've lived here, we've paid taxes here, we work here, we survive here, we love this city," Ortmann said to applause. "The new guys come in, where's all that revenue going? Besides the taxes that the city gets, it's going down wherever Pinnacle's office is."
Bar owner Jack Larrison saw business at his saloon, Shady Jack's go up 20 percent after Illinois banned smoking in 2008. That extra business helped offset the recent economic downturn.
"I really don't care about France, I really don't care about Cuba, I really don't care about some of the other things you brought up," he said. "What I do care about is my survival."
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